The use of red colour as the basis for selecting candidate high redshift dusty galaxies from surveys made with Herschel has proved highly successful. The highest redshift such object, HFLS3, lies at z = 6.34 and numerous other sources have been found. Spectroscopic followup confirms that most of these lie at z > 4. These sources are found in such numbers that they represent a challenge to current models of galaxy evolution. We also examine the prospects for finding dusty galaxies at still higher redshifts. These would not appear in the SPIRE surveys from Herschel but would be detected in longer wavelength, submm, surveys. Several such 'SPIRE-dropouts' have been found and are now subject to followup observations.